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Forum:About Classes
This is something I've been pondering for a while (and mentioned before) but the recent debate at Talk:Pegasus Knight re:Pegasus Warrior has got me thinking: At what point does a class stop being that class? At what point can we look at two similar classes definitively say "no, this is definitely a distinct class from that"? I mean, on one hand, you have Mercenary and Myrmidon, two related classes that even were the same class for a while (the Jugdral Swordfighter/Myrmidon resembled the recurring Merc just as much as the later Myrmidon), but also co-exist as separate classes in several titles. On the other hand, can we look at both Dark Mage and the GBA Shaman or at the Jugdral Mage Knight and the 3DS Dark Knight and clearly say "these are totally distinct from one another, and could co-exist separately without redundancy"? The big two things I've been looking at are "do they have different names" and "do they coexist in the same game"? If both are yes, as far as I am concerned they are different classes (with exceptions, such as the TRS Fighter and Merc or the Fates Pegasus Warrior and Knight). If just the former is yes...I honestly don't know what to do. What about if a class has a different tier placement throughout its appearances? Is the third tier Bow Knight of Gaiden the same class as the second tier Bow Knight of Jugdral and the 3DS games or the first tier Bow Knight of Tellius? What makes the second tier Bow Knight different from The Sacred Stones's Ranger/Forrest Knight? (Is the Jugdral Forrest Knight the same class? It's a mounted swordie in both appearances, but Bow Knight coexists with it in FE4). Am I overthinking it? Thoughts?--Otherarrow (talk) 18:52, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::I think this would probably cause a lot of headaches, but if we were to start merging classes it should probably based on whether the classes are both functionally and thematically similar, if that makes sense Are You Serious (talk) 20:04, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::I'm a little too exausted now for reasons unrelated to the wiki to get into this fully, but probably best to do it when they appear together as fully different classes. As it is, Pegasus Warrior has more in common with the past Pegasus Knight then Minerva's personal version which also has a critical rate. So TCG Minerva's version is more of a personal variant class, only she can get it. Emperor Hardin (talk) 20:40, December 2, 2015 (UTC) :::Yeah, I agree with that. They need to be functionally and thematically similar, of course. Shaman and Dark Mage, for example, are already basically the same class, in looks and function. The Dark Knight, meanwhile, has a much different ascetic than the Mage Knight, with a skill set to match (Lifetaker being their signature skill, and something that thematically fits the Dark Knight best). So it's probably a complicated case figuring out, even among very similar classes, which require the merge. If that makes any sense. :::That's also fair, and "appears together as fully different classes" is what we've been doing, exceptions aside. (Speaking of which, yeah, it does seem like Minerva's Pegasus class is the exception, being a new mishmash class that happens to have the old name, and not the old Pegasus Knight "co-existing" with Pegasus Warrior). :::Or maybe I should leave well enough alone and not merge/split anything.--Otherarrow (talk) 22:38, December 2, 2015 (UTC) :::Shaman and Dark Mages did appear together in Genealogy of the Holy War, Shaman was the Light Magic used by bosses, Julia, and Deirdre. :::Forrest Knight, and Bow Knight are the only ones I'm thinking of splitting. Emperor Hardin (talk) 22:41, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::::I meant GBA Shaman, I thought that was implied by my labeling it earlier. That's another thing I kinda wanted to get into here, a few (thankfully only a few) unrelated classes seem to be merged solely because they have shared a name at some point; Shaman is the big one, but even Exorcist was before we realized the exact Japanese name is different between the Gaiden/TRS and Fates class. Berserker is currently merged with the unrelated FE3 class, though there are vague plans to split I think? The proposal I was implying that all info on the GBA Shaman would be merged with Dark Mage (as the earlier/most recurring class name, it'd take priority) and the Jugdral Shaman/Sister/Whatever it is this week would be at Shaman alone. ::::I think in those cases, we need to use our judgement: Arrow Knight and Bow Paladin (Arrow Knight in Japanese), for example, are both mounted second tier bow using knights, so even while the exact properties of the classes may not match up, it passes the squint test. Shaman and Shaman/"Light Priestess", meanwhile, have nothing in common aside from both being magic users (it'd be like having the TRS Fighter be on the "normal" Fighter page instead of Mercenary); Priest and FE2!Priest are completely different classes with no resemblance (suggested name for FE2 class: Priestess). If I am making sense here. ::::Bow Knight and Forrest Knight are already different pages. I was proposing merging them, though the Jugdral Forrest Knight and Bow Knight's convoluted history (I think it even beats Shaman/Cleric/Priest out) would prevent that without too many headaches or nonsense.--Otherarrow (talk) 23:00, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::::::In my opinion, it's a good idea to merge Jugdral Shaman and Light Priestess, dunno about GBA shaman and Dark Mage. Forrest Knight and Bow knight IMO should not be merged, as TRS "Bow Rider" is obviously a renamed Bow Knight, and all incarnations of the Forrest Knight outside The Sacred Stones are sword only. Maybe mention the similarity between TSS Ranger and Awakening Bow Knight, but that's it. 23:20, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::::::Berserker, and FE3 Berserker have already been split, thuogh I'm still working on the FE# berserker page. This is a good incentive to finish that page. Also any thoughts on the talk I added to your page? Emperor Hardin (talk) 00:34, December 3, 2015 (UTC) ::::::It did? My bad then. Anyway, I thought I commented on the Minerva Pegasus here, and the other thing reminds me of the guy who seriously argued that we should split the Jugdral Axe Fighter from Fighter based solely on the sprite being different in FE5. Yeah, we aren't doing anything that extreme.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:15, December 3, 2015 (UTC) ::::::Have we made any decision on Horseman? I imagine the decision will be similar to Bow Knight, and Forrest Knight. Emperor Hardin (talk) 02:46, December 5, 2015 (UTC)